This was unexpected. Initially, I was supposed to do a fifteen-minute phone interview with Angie Dickinson to help promote the Warner Archive's DVD release of Roger Vadim's utterly demented (and seriously hot!) PRETTY MAIDS ALL IN A ROW. Then, at almost the precise moment Ms. Dickinson was supposed to call, my phone line went dead. By the time I noticed the line was out, ten minutes had gone by. Once I got in contact with the Archive's Gabriel Vicuna, it seemed likely that I'd missed my opportunity to talk with the star of two of my all-time favorite movies (RIO BRAVO and DRESSED TO KILL). I was distraught. And though Gabriel left open the possibility of a late-afternoon makeup call after she finished all of her interviews, given the way my week was going, it all felt rather dubious. At around 4 PM, Gabriel got me on the phone with Ms. Dickinson, who, having just returned to her home in Beverly Hills, was unwinding with a glass of wine - anything to make another round of the same questions she'd been answering all day bearable. I, on the other hand, was draining my third cup of coffee for the day, and going a bit hoarse after several hours of vigorous discourse with AT&T customer service. This had the makings of a wham-bang special: she'd fulfill her obligation to the Warner Archive, and I'd wind up with a series of rehearsed answers that, if nothing else, reminded people that Gene Roddenberry once wrote and produced a ribald sex comedy. I did not expect this interview to go particularly well. Here's the great thing about actors who came through the old-school studio system: they're almost all movie buffs. And they see everything, even today, because they generally came of professional age at a time when the industry was shifting into its rebellious late '60s/early '70s phase; in other words, they're as familiar with Visconti and Truffaut as they are Hawks and Hitchcock. Some would say they have adventurous tastes, but they simply love movies too much to deny themselves a film they haven't seen - and if they really fall for a movie, the second viewing can't come soon enough. This is how Angie Dickinson rolls. I approached this interview strategically, hoping to cover Vadim's rarely-discussed PRETTY MAIDS ALL IN A ROW for about ten minutes, while saving a few questions in the back five for RIO BRAVO and/or Samuel Fuller's underrated CHINA GATE (one of Dickinson's first starring roles). Thankfully, I brought up Tarantino's adoration of PRETTY MAIDS, which prompted Dickinson to cite his love for RIO BRAVO, at which point we were talking to each other as kindred cinephiles. So ten minutes quickly became twenty, and when Gabriel hopped on the line to give Ms. Dickenson her out, she said she was fine. We kept talking. The below interview represents about thirty-five minutes of audio; it does not cover the final five minutes or so we spent talking about movies we'd seen recently. Angie Dickinson started her career in Hollywood as a secretary at the Burbank Airport's Lockheed Terminal; she learned her craft playing bit parts on television and in movies, and earned her filmmaking masters degree on the set of Howard Hawks's RIO BRAVO. She's an indelible, assertive presence in so many great movies (POINT BLANK!), and was one of the sexiest television stars of all time in POLICE WOMAN. Then she came back to film and played the Janet Leigh PSYCHO role (albeit with greater psychological depth) in Brian De Palma's sensational DRESSED TO KILL (she's also given a better set piece than getting slashed to bits in a shower). Angie Dickinson is a treasure. And, at seventy-nine, she's still got the chutzpah to take over a movie if someone has the wherewithal to write her a role worthy of her talents. Just don't write her as a grandmother. As you'll soon learn, she has no time for that nonsense.

Mr. Beaks: It's so wonderful to talk to you, especially for this film which has been unavailable for so many years.

Angie Dickinson: I know! Isn't that interesting? I've kept my eye out for it for so long, but it just never came around. Have you seen it yet?

Beaks: I have. They actually screened it a few years ago at the New Beverly Cinema in Los Angeles. Quentin Tarantino is a fan.

Dickinson: Oh, god bless him. You know he loves RIO BRAVO!

Beaks: Who doesn't?

Dickinson: Do you know that story about RIO BRAVO? He would test [potential girlfriends], and if they didn't love RIO BRAVO he wouldn't take them out. (Laughs) But I'm not surprised Quentin would love this movie.

Beaks: It's such a fascinating movie. It's the tawdry Rock Hudson sex comedy for the sexual revolution.

Dickson: I think we all wish we could get into his head and wonder if all of that really occurred to him, or if he thought, "Well, I'll just have to do something macho." You just wonder.

Beaks: You'd just been in the terrific POINT BLANK a few years earlier before making PRETTY MAIDS ALL IN A ROW.

Dickinson: Yeah, but as good as that is, at the time it wasn't that popular. It wasn't that successful. Today we can see every week how much money every movie has made, but they didn't make a habit of that then. Basically, it was an overlooked movie. Although everyone liked it when they saw it, it was not EASY RIDER.

Beaks: So how did the script for PRETTY MAIDS come to you.

Dickinson: You know, 1971 was a long time ago. It must've come from my agent to me. "Here's an offer for a movie with Rock Hudson." I was totally freelance then, and I was also looking for movies that stayed in L.A. because I had a family and didn't want to leave them - which is one of the reasons I took POLICE WOMAN. I could work and be in L.A. So I read it and thought it was... kinky. (Laughs) I thought it might be challenging and fun. My career was at a little bit of a standstill at the time, so I had nothing to lose and perhaps something to gain.

Beaks: Back in the '60s there would've been a lot of innuendo; the sex would've been intimated. Here, the innuendo ultimately boils over into actual sex.

Dickinson: I can think of maybe BONNIE AND CLYDE in '68, but even that did not have the level of innuendo we had. Nowhere near. It may have been because it was Vadim. Maybe that's why Gene Roddenberry wanted Vadim: the sex would be understandable. Gene Roddenberry wouldn't have to convince Vadim to make it sexy; that would be an automatic. Because ...AND GOD CREATED WOMEN was so sexy.

Beaks: How accurate a depiction of Los Angeles do you think the film was at the time?

Dickinson: I haven't seen it in a long time, but, at the time, I thought it was dead on. They were buying pot at school, weren't they? And wearing very, very miniskirts. So naturally these young me would be aroused. I'm afraid I think I thought it was accurate. I wasn't in school, of course, but I just assumed that was pretty much... maybe not the norm, but certainly for Hollywood the norm.

Beaks: Looking at it now, and seeing the way the girls are portrayed and what they wear, from Vadim's perspective it's very easy to understand poor John David Carson's constant state of arousal.

Dickinson: Yes! Absolutely! How could you concentrate with them sitting next to you. Yeah, it's true. But I think it's that way today, too. We went through the '70s and '80s with kind of flower children-y long skirts then short skirts and all of that, but that was kind of flowery and innocent, in my opinion. Whereas this is brazen! These are brazen times!

Beaks: (Laughs) Indeed. How was Vadim in handling the sex scenes - in particular your amazing seduction of John David Carson?

Dickinson: I was not on the set when Vadim was doing the girls' love scenes with Rock because I was not in them. You don't hang around the set when you don't work - unless you have a thing going with the director or the star. (Laughs) I wasn't around for those, but for mine he just wanted to make it very sensual, but not... how do I put it? Not madly in love, just plain old sex. (Laughs) With a little touch of gloss to it. The kid comes not to have a nice dinner with her, but to jump in the hay. But as they say, when you're being directed you absorb it; you don't study it. I can't always turn around and tell you what he said, but you digest what the director is telling you; it becomes part of an osmosis thing so that you can do it. But I can't always analyze what he said; sometimes there was no explaining except you either got it or you didn't. But Vadim was a very sensuous man. Shall I tell you a little story? You'll be the only one who hears this.

Beaks: Please do.

Dickinson: Jane Fonda called once. She was working on CAT BALLOU. She called and said, "Will you take Vadim to a baseball game? He wants to see a baseball game." You know the French don't know anything about baseball. And then she said, "Because you're the only woman I know who knows baseball and whom I can trust!" (Laughs) And so we went to the baseball game! But he was a very sensuous guy. The way he walked: he oozed it. Being a very confident, smart European, he just had that thing going for him. And how he puts it across to Americans in the movie, I can't tell you specifically except that he did find it difficult to express what he wanted. He used to say, "I wish I could call out a number, and ask you to do 'Number 14', and I wouldn't have to explain it all every time." I think language was a barrier for him. But he was a sensuous man who had to convey to us actors to be sensual.

Beaks: John David Carson is so wonderfully flustered and intimidated by you in that scene. Was he as intimidated in real life? How was he in playing the scene?

Dickinson: He was really playing the scene; he was acting. But he was by nature a non-aggressive person. He was a gentle guy. He did a POLICE WOMAN years later, somebody reminded me. He was always a very quiet, cute kid. He fit the part - or he was not used to being aggressive, let's say. Maybe he could be, but didn't want to be.

Beaks: It's interesting watching your character in this because... RIO BRAVO is always just hanging there. You've had so many roles in your career where you're a capable, independent woman. This is something Hawks obviously identified, but also Samuel Fuller a few years earlier with CHINA GATE.

Dickinson: Oh, good for you! I was almost an amateur when CHINA GATE came along; if he could've afforded anyone bigger or better, I'm sure he would've taken them. But he trusted me. I did have that thing called "maturity". I never played the schoolgirl or an immature person; I always played a mature girl or woman - and one who was unafraid. Cautious, maybe, but not afraid. So I guess the same would apply a little for the teacher in PRETTY MAIDS. I'll have to think about that. She could handle it. If she wanted Rock Hudson badly enough... (Laughs) I'll have to see it. It is a long time ago. And not having seen it freshly, it's a little bit hard for me to answer some of these questions accurately.

Beaks: You play it very well. There is a bit of naivete on the surface, but you can see underneath that she's quite aware of what she wants and how she'll go about getting it.

Dickinson: I think that would be what I had in mind, and what it was supposed to be. She had to get to her other goal, and it wasn't unpleasant for her. She loved giving him the bath, and all of that, and succeeding in his little dilemma. (Laughs) It is an amusing situation. My part of the movie is very clear. He's turned on by everybody and, oy vey, do I take care of it. It's Rock and the other girls where we're not sure what we're watching. It's so perplexing.

Beaks: It's strange. There are two different films going on. And your film plays very clearly. We certainly understand what we're watching.

Dickinson: She makes a play for Rock, and she just allows him to seduce her into doing this act for him. My story is very, very straight - and maybe that's what Roddenberry had in mind. Mix it up a little. Make it unpredictable. I really don't know. But it is a surprise that Gene Roddenberry wrote and produced it, isn't it?

Beaks: I knew of the film for years, but it wasn't until Quentin played it at The New Beverly that I realized Roddenberry wrote the script. I was stunned.

Dickinson: I didn't even learn that until yesterday. I assumed Vadim wrote it - or I just forgot. I'm not sure which. But it certainly is not how we perceive Gene Roddenberry. And I think it's wonderful that he was a horny guy! (Laughs)

Beaks: (Laughing) It certainly humanizes him.

Dickinson: It really does.

Beaks: I brought this up earlier, and I just can't help myself because it's Sam Fuller, but CHINA GATE is not often discussed. I think it's underrated. It has such an interesting cast, with yourself, Gene Barry and Nat King Cole.

Dickinson: Very nice of you to bring him up. Nat Cole was wonderful in it. I don't know what made Sam Fuller say, "You know who would be great in that part? Nat Cole." It just doesn't make any sense, and yet it's wonderful. I don't know what led him to want to use Nat, but thank god he did. He was very effective, wasn't he?

Beaks: Surprisingly so.

Dickinson: And yet we shouldn't be surprised because all entertainers really act on stage. They perform. But it was still a surprise, and a lovely addition to the movie. That one I haven't seen in a long time either, and I don't know how good I am because it was early in my career. It was my first leading role.

Beaks: Oh, you're very good in the film. But I remember from Fuller's autobiography that he cast you because you'd dubbed an actresses dialogue on his previous film.

Dickinson: It was Sarita Montiel [in RUN OF THE ARROW]. That's a name you don't hear every day, but somehow I remember her name. She did this movie, and... I think I tested for that movie with Brian Keith. And in the test he must've heard a sound that he liked. He said, "Would you dub her in the movie" - and, of course, why would I not? I guess Sam was already seeing something he liked.

Beaks: How was Fuller different from someone like Hawks as a director.

Dickinson: Well, Howard was very cautious and deliberate. He knew that he wanted something special, but if he told you what he wanted, it wouldn't be special. He wanted to make you come up with something special. (Laughs) And that was tough. But he had the patience that you don't believe to say, "Okay, that's not too bad, but let's try it this time with..." whatever. He would sit back and kind of wait for his thinking to filter through to you - whereas Sammy was a great storyteller, and would almost play the part for you while he's showing you what the scene is about. Quite the opposite.

Beaks: Sometimes actors don't like that line-reading way of doing things.

Dickinson: Well, it wasn't line reading. It was putting the passion in for you, and the purpose of the scene. Howard never did a line reading. You must have to bite your tongue as a director not to do that. You can see what you want very much, but you don't dare say it. That has to be really hard. Because if I was a director, I would say, "DO IT THIS WAY!!!" But Sammy was a robust, energetic, constantly... (Imitating Fuller) "On the go! On the go! Okay, great! That's great, but let's do it this way!" He was part of the scene almost, while Howard was Michaelangelo painting his painting and fixing it the way he wanted it done. Howard Hawks is one of the hardest directors I ever worked for because he wanted the most out of me. It turned out wonderfully, but, man, was it tough. And he'd probably say, "It sure was. Like pulling teeth, but we pulled 'em." For me, I was only four years into the whole business. I was a secretary up until four years before, so I was so green. But Hawks was so patient with me. I owe him everything almost.

Beaks: Did you find that, when working with younger directors, that they would have moments where they'd start asking about working with guys like Hawks and Fuller?

Dickinson: No, I don't think so. I think they always want to be their own director. I don't recall that, but that's an interesting question. As a matter of fact, quite a few times I've tried to do things, and they'll say, "No, don't do that." And I'll say, "You know, it took me forty years to learn to do that from Hawks, and now you don't want me to do it?" So I think the answer is "No". They don't want to hear about the other directors. I felt I was helping the scene. In a two-shot, Hawks said, "Turn your head just so that we catch a profile. Much more interesting than the back of your head." You had to play the scene not looking normally the way you would at somebody; you had to give the camera the profile and yet believe that you weren't doing that at the same time. That's part of what I'm talking about. But, no, I don't think any directors want to hear that; I think they want to learn it or discover it on their own. I don't think they would ask an actor that.

Beaks: Since we're talking about RIO BRAVO, one of the wonderful things about that film is the way Hawks uses you to draw out John Wayne. He's a little flustered and taken aback by Feathers.

Dickinson: Yes, because she's gentle, but relentless. She unnerves him. When he shakes her head as she goes out of the room. (Laughs) It's lovely. She's not aggressive, but she won't back down.

Beaks: There aren't too many times I buy that from Wayne with women in movies. The combination is perfect. How did you achieve this, especially with John Wayne being... well, John Wayne at that point?

Dickinson: That was all Hawks. All Hawks. He made the character. I was to the letter what he wanted. None of that was improvised. And when I say Hawks, I also mean the writers. Jules Furthman was on that, and there was also a woman.

Beaks: Leigh Brackett.

Dickinson: Okay, there you go! It was all on paper, that part. Our relationship was written on paper and in that director's head. None of that was our sneaking anything in. It was written so wonderfully.

Beaks: One thing that struck me while watching PRETTY MAIDS ALL IN A ROW was that three of the main characters were just about to segue into television. You were close to doing POLICE WOMAN, Rock was going to do MCMILLAN & WIFE and Telly Savalas had KOJAK on the horizon. Could you sense at the time that you were at a transitional point in your career?

Dickinson: When television first started, you were considered not at the top of your game if you did television. It was a comedown. Did you know James Stewart did a series and it didn't succeed? And Henry Fonda? And Shirley MacLaine? Steve McQueen is the only one who comes to mind who succeeded with a series. Lee Marvin might also be an exception, but I don't know if he was as known in movies [when he did M SQUAD]. I don't know. I don't have my chronology in order. But if you did television in the '50s, you were slipping in your career. Then it started to change in the '60s, and by the '70s, a few of us jumped in there and it became normal for movie stars to go do series. But before that, many, many failed - I'm happy to say. (Laughs) But it's all trends, and how many more people then watched television, or how much better or worse television got. Whatever. The ball keeps rolling, and if you can hang around long enough and roll with it... I love that I could mix it up. I could do POLICE WOMAN and then do DRESSED TO KILL, a really big movie. And a really good movie. Usually, once you shifted, you stayed there.

Beaks: DRESSED TO KILL was such a dramatic change of pace from POLICE WOMAN.

Dickinson: It's the opposite end. I'm totally vulnerable. But it's interesting. Telly was a very big success with KOJAK. I think it was more popular than Rock's or my show.

Beaks: He was inseparable from that character after a while.

Dickinson: Yeah. And that's really hard to do after a while. For me, though, I didn't want to carry that one thing with me. I wanted to continue on and do all kinds of things - television and movies. I preferred to not be identified only as Pepper, although it didn't annoy me in the least. But I didn't have a lollipop.

Beaks: The variety of the work is impressive. That's the fun thing. I think I probably discovered you in DRESSED TO KILL.

Dickinson: And that's just terrific. That has nothing really to do with preference or my age. That's a mystery. Well, maybe it's not a mystery... (Laughs)

Beaks: (Laughing) It's a mystery how I got to see it without my parents knowing.

Dickinson: That first half-hour is incredible. And then the subway stuff. Oh, my god.

Beaks: Well, De Palma is another favorite director of mine.

Dickinson: Oh, good. THE UNTOUCHABLES? We could talk for twenty minutes about that. When those horses come over that hill. (Laughs)

Beaks: It's his western moment.

Dickinson: It's just so wonderful!

Beaks: And the music.

Dickinson: When I saw it, I said, "Oh, Brian, I'm just so happy for you!" And he said, "We got 'em!" (Laughs) It's so lovely to talk to people who love movies. I love movies. I watched BALLAD OF A SOLDIER last night, and I thought, "How many people have not seen this great movie?" Have you ever seen it?

Beaks: I have not.

Dickinson: It was made in 1960. Russian. And it is just so unbelievable. And I was thinking for those of us who love movies, and cinematography, and love what a movie can do to you - and what it can make you into almost. They affect us a great deal, especially when we're young. I just love movies. They take me away on many, many trips.

Beaks: Do you still love making movies?

Dickinson: Well... no. To play a grandmother can't touch playing a hooker. (Laughs) No, not really. The parts are... not very rewarding and not worth watching. It's a waste of good time. But if you let me play Jack Nicholson's mom, then that might be good. That might be just fine. But not the usual stuff. And it doesn't matter. I don't mind at all. I don't have any sense of "Oh, I can't do that anymore." Nothing like that. I didn't expect anything different when I got older. I don't miss it, but I loved what I had.

Beaks: Well, perhaps Mr. Tarantino can figure something out and write something for you.

Dickinson: I'll wear a burka! (Laughs) Then I'll be content. You're lovely to talk to. Do you have anymore questions before I keep talking?

Beaks: No. This has been wonderful. And much longer than I expected. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Dickinson: Thank you. I just want to ask you one thing.

Beaks: Sure.

Dickinson: Did you love BASTERDS as much as I did?

And then we just talked about movies for another five minutes. Dickinson adores INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS (and had some rather detailed thoughts on the way the opening scene was written and shot), but had no problem with THE HURT LOCKER beating it out for Best Picture. She thinks Jeremy Renner is the next James Cagney, and will be seeing THE TOWN a second time this week. Meanwhile, I'll be watching RIO BRAVO for the hundredth time, and falling back in love with Feathers. PRETTY MAIDS ALL IN A ROW is now available at the Warner Archive. Draw a bath and enjoy.

Faithfully submitted, Mr. Beaks