I’ve probably seen it thousands of times: the wind-up with the right hand, followed by a blistering, wholly unexpected left-hand jab. Roberto Duran’s eyes go glassy. A round later, Duran, visibly laboring, mutters “No Mas” to the referee and Sugar Ray Leonard is once again the WBC Welterweight Champion.
Style and fury. That was Sugar Ray Leonard in his prime. There were certainly more physically intimidating fighters in his day (and he fought two of them: Marvin Hagler and Thomas Hearns), but none possessed Leonard’s mastery of the Sweet Science. He could box or brawl, outpoint his opponent or best them in a toe-to-toe slugfest. Most importantly, he could finish: no one was more dangerous in the late rounds than Leonard; just when he seemed out on his feet, he’d come storming out of his corner in the thirteenth, a blur of punishment (just ask Hearns). And because he was so affable and eloquent on top of being a world-class ass-kicker, Sugar Ray Leonard was – and probably always will be - my favorite boxer.
A few weeks ago, I sat down with the champ at the REAL STEEL press day to discuss his role as the film’s boxing consultant. Leonard clearly had a great time choreographing these fights, if only because it allowed him to mentally get back in the ring and do what he did better than almost anyone in boxing history – i.e. compete and put on one hell of a show. Eventually, the fight fan in me came out, and we talked about his career, and how he tapped into that “reservoir” of strength time and again to beat the formidable likes of Hagler, Hearns and Duran. I also got his thoughts on the great boxing movies, the recent Floyd Mayweather, Jr.-Victor Ortiz debacle, and the likelihood of a Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao title fight. They almost had to physically pull me out of this interview.
Beaks: Having seen the film, and the variety of fighting styles they employ, you were the ideal consultant because you were always able to adjust to the style of the other fighter if need be.
Sugar Ray Leonard: Well, it was natural. It was a natural process for me. I mean, this is my forte. It’s what I do. Especially when they say to “choreograph”, because that’s what I did throughout my career. I choreographed the fights in my head, whether it was Hearns, Hagler, Duran, whoever… I’ve done that from day one. Even as a young amateur boxer, I kind of choreographed how I saw the fight. So to bring that to the screen was pretty cool. And working with Hugh was really a treat, because he’s such a perfectionist; he’s an athlete, and he has a passion for the sport of boxing. Then Shawn Levy is just so creative. He has such a vision. He knew how this movie should come out, and I was really impressed with all of that.
Beaks: I think of how fights in films are routinely exaggerated; the punishment that the fighters take is always a bit too much. But with robots, that’s not such a problem.
Leonard: Not at all. If they jump in the air and come down with a stunning right hand, that’s great! That’s plausible! That’s doable! You know, it was really ironic how this whole thing… to say [in the film], well, this is a time when boxing became a dead sport, and boxing wasn’t as popular because of the carnage. Fans were asking for more, as they were paying their pay-per-view bill, and they wanted more action. Now, it’s robots. But I just didn’t expect these robots could perform as well. It’s like real people. When I worked with the choreography with some of the stunt men, and I looked on the monitor and it’s robots, you know. The camera puts it all together. It was like, “Wow! Look how far we have come.” It’s amazing. But, you know, I was so happy to be a part of this whole journey.
Beaks: I’m curious about the real-life applications. In violent sports like boxing and football, where these guys are stronger and more powerful than ever before, due to performance enhancers or whatever… these guys can really each other now. It’s much easier to do irreparable harm. Can you conceive of violent sports moving in this direction, where we have machines standing in for us?
Leonard: But who is actually saying what’s going to take place twenty years from now, thirty years from now? I mean, come on! I mean, look at this little thing. (Picks up my iPhone) I mean, I had one of the first cellular telephones, and that thing was this big with a base that big. It’s intriguing. It’s fascinating and scary.
Beaks: (Laughs) Well, I mean you are retired at least. So the robots aren’t going to be taking your job.
Leonard: No, but I can imagine myself… I’m going to tell my son “Hey Ray, get me two tickets man to the fight?” “Who’s fighting?” “I think Noisy Boy and [unintelligible due to laughter].” “How much does he weigh?” “I think he came in at like a thousand pounds.”
Beaks: (Laughing) Do you think there are any boxing films that really captured what it’s like to be in the ring?
Leonard: You know what movie really captured me? MILLION DOLLAR BABY. And RAGING BULL obviously. Those were the ones that really stand out in my mind as far as the execution of the punches. I don’t really remember the sequences of boxing in THE CHAMP or REQUIEM FOR A HEAVYWEIGHT, but those were two of my favorite movies. I mean ROCKY… even though it was exaggerated and really sensationalized, it showed what happens in those late rounds, how you can get that burst of adrenaline and all of a sudden come back and kick ass.
Beaks: What is that even like? What does that feel like? I think of your fights with Duran and Hagler, and…
Leonard: You know, that’s funny you mention that, because I had that in the back of my mind as far as trying to explain to some of the press how or what it is to be a great fighter. It’s because of that hidden reservoir of strength… that area that we have, that everybody has. But what makes me different is that I can activate it. You know what I mean? I can go there. Because when you are tired, fatigued, hurting, exhausted, on the verge of giving up, a part of you says, “No freaking way,” and you reach down. And it hurts. It does hurt to go that far. But you come back up, and you come back, “Bam, bam, boom.” That’s beauty. I’ve lived that a few times, and I can tell you from a first hand experience that you think… you think you’re almost about to die. I mean, you are hurting; you’re tired and you are exhausted, but you want it that much more than him, that much more. That’s volume, and I’ve done it on a couple of occasions - a few occasions I should say. But you can’t always go there. You can’t keep going back there, you know? There’s a point.
Beaks: Is that a mixture of pride and fear? I mean, it’s only you two in there. If you lose, you lose alone.
Leonard: I’m glad you say that. It’s pride and fear. Fear is a bad thing because fear paralyzes you. But fear is also a good thing because fear keeps you alert. Once you balance those two out, you are a hell of a fighter.
[Both Laugh]
Beaks: It’s amazing to watch. But when you have tapped those reservoirs, when you have done it a few times, is there a point at the end of that fight where you are like, “There’s no way in hell I can do this again”?
Leonard: Nope. Because when you win, you will win again. When you win, you only think about winning again. It kind of wraps it up and then says, “Alright, we are fresh. We are back. We’re ready.” I can’t really define or clarify what I’m trying to say, but it’s like… you go there and it hurts like hell. But you win. And by winning, you think, “I could do it again.” You have built another level of conflict.
Beaks: I have to ask your opinion on the craziness of last weekend. If you were in that position, in [Floyd Mayweather, Jr.’s] position, getting headbutted…
Leonard: Let me say, that was such an intentional headbutt [from Victor Ortiz]. Now he’s pissed, because that shot with the head could have been career threatening. It could have hit a vessel. It could have done some serious damage to his eyes. I saw a couple of replays, and I saw them touch gloves like to say, “Hey man, I’m sorry.” But it’s in the heat of the battle. It’s in a moment. We have forgotten about the headbutt, but not Floyd. And Floyd’s like, “Fuck you, Pow!” But he went, like, “Pow, Pow” at the same time [referee] Joe Cortez looked away. It’s one of those things, unfortunately. It happened, and people paid money for the pay-per-view. Was it unsportsmanlike? Was it a cheap shot? Was it a rabbit punch? Was it a sucker punch? It was all of those things. But, you know, it was provoked.
Beaks: But it’s also great drama.
Leonard: Yeah, but I just wish that it didn’t happen. And then his thing with Larry Merchant. [Ed. note: Merchant, an HBO Boxing commentator, conducted a heated post-fight interview with Mayweather.] Larry called me after that. He said, “Ray, did you ever throw a sucker punch?” I called him back, and I said, “Larry, you are eighty years old, and you said if you were fifty years younger, you would kick his ass? Larry, don’t go there.” (Laughs) But you are right: it added more drama. So the fight with Pacquiao and Mayweather, if it happens, I think it’s going to be just off the hook. That fight will be so big. But what I’m afraid of is that one of them will continue to fight before they fight each other, and he’s going to look ordinary, and it’s going to [diminish] the anticipation. Because people have a favorite. Right now, it’s kind of split. It depends who you ask. I’m the same way. I have never seen Mayweather hurt, and I saw him hurting. Did you see that fight with and Shane Moseley?
Beaks: Yeah, that was stunning. I thought he was going down early.
Leonard: He was out, and he pulled himself back. Now that impressed me. And did you see Pacquiao and [Antonio] Margarito? That body shot? He was hurt. He was really hurt bad. But he came back. These guys should fight, man.
Beaks: That’s what concerns me, too. Because I remember Tyson… before that Buster Douglas fight, we were starting to build to Tyson/Holyfield. That was going to be the first meaningful heavyweight fight in years. And then Douglas knocked Tyson out. It was an amazing moment. I will never forget watching that fight with my father. But it also robbed us of this fight that I think we all really wanted.
Leonard: And I was there for that fight in Japan. I was working with HBO. And when Tyson walked into this ring, I looked at his face and I said, “It’s not good.” Because just like I told Hugh [Jackman]: it’s the eyes; it’s that look. If you have the chance, look at Tyson walk to the ring against Buster Douglas, then look at the fight where Tyson forks through the ring with Michael Spinks or whoever else. It’s that look, you know? You could even do me when I was fighting Duran in the first fight; he walks in the ring, and it’s like, “Okay, can we postpone this shit until tomorrow?” I didn’t bring my A game; I just didn’t feel it. It’s all about feeling it. And unfortunately in boxing, you can’t just say, “Let’s try tomorrow,” because you’ve got to fight right then and there. It’s an amazing mental thing you know?
Beaks: There’s been such a sideshow with the [potential Pacquaio/Mayweather fight], what with Pacquiao and the blood testing. I’ve always wondered, though, if there’s an element of these guys realizing this will probably be one of their last fights, so they’re just delaying until the last possible minute.
Leonard: But this fight… they could both make $50 million, $100 million… whatever! It’s crazy – not only financially, but for themselves and the fans. I think if they wait another year or so, I don’t think it’s going to happen.
Beaks: And wouldn’t there have to be a rematch almost regardless of how it went?
Leonard: No, not regardless. No, it has to be almost a split decision. It’s very subjective, and depends on who you ask. It’s close, and that’s where there’s a rematch.
REAL STEEL is in IMAX and regular ol’ theaters now. Meanwhile, Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez will get it on for the third time November 12, 2011.
Faithfully submitted,
