FLASHPOINT Roundtable Review!
@$$Hole Roll Call:
Optimous DoucheJohnny Destructo
Professor Challenger
Humphrey Lee
KletusCasady
Ambush Bug
OPTIMOUS DOUCHE (OD): I loves me some alternate anything. After reading FLASHPOINT #1, I'll need a tailor of my own to reattach my zipper. We've been without an "Elseworld" for a long time, which is understandable, DC needed to figure out what the hell the main universe was going to look like. And while FLASHPOINT has nothing to do with the 52 new worlds of the DC Universe as I initially expected, the catalyst or mechanism of change (a time fuck in this instance thanks to Reverse Flash) I realized doesn't matter.JOHNNY DESTRUCTO (JD): I TOLLLLD you it was going to be a Reverse Flash-ening! Eff the 52 new worlds in the face! Suck it, Douche. Ahem. Sorry.
AMBUSH BUG (BUG): See, I'm the opposite. Call me a stickler. Call me uptight. But I like one universe, one set of heroes, one history and continuity to follow. Every time I see an Elseworlds/Alternate Reality/Time Travel type story, it automatically screams "not relevant", and I tune out. Problem is, I love Geoff Johns' writing and a lot of the stuff that's going on are things I wish would be happening in the mainstream DCU (making Wonder Woman and Aquaman interesting, for example), so when I heard of this crossover I was a bit torn. Reading the first issue still didn't curb my distaste for alternate reality/time travel stories, but I have to acknowledge that it was nicely written and I think the cast of characters Johns is using is interesting. Mainly Shade the Changing Man, which I've been a fan of since his Vertigo series.OD: OK, you're a stickler. Well I think this technically is continuity, but of course we all know it will end with a magic reset button and I can't honestly blame DC or any comic company for doing that. We all know that Earth Prime or Zero...whatever the hell they are calling the main DC universe these days is not "our" world, but it must stay close enough to our world so the reader doesn't have too much aesthetic distance to travel so they stay vested in the events. You can't permanently flood Europe or give England to a bunch of roided out lesbians forever, without the audience becoming completely detached.
JD: Speaking of the big, shiny, candy-like reset button that we all know will be pressed at the end of this, I am curious to see what may NOT be reset. I was pretty impressed that Johns killed off Barry's mom. All those older fans that were around to have Barry as "their Flash" now have a Barry with a murdered mama. Ballsy move.KLETUS CASADAY (KC): What sold me on this series even before I read it though, were the teasers. Something about showing those little snippets and saying 'this year in FLASH' (like they did with BOOSTER GOLD) or whatever it said piqued my curiosity. I was worried about the whole waking up in an alternate reality and Barry running around saying "This is not my beautiful house, this is not my beautiful wife," but the way shit is handled in this book is cool because the story going on outside of Barry Allen is larger than him, pretty interesting and seems solid enough to have its own series outside of THE FLASH. But before I go on...are we doing spoiler alerts of keeping it vague?
BUG: I think for the sake of giving this a proper discussion we have to discuss SPOILERS, sensitive types who are allergic to spoilers should probably steer clear.HUMPHREY LEE (HUMPHREY): I'm not a stickler for anything really, except that I'm probably the least open to events out of all of us. At the least, if you're going to do them you do it - quick and contained with not too many tie-ins. That was my hope for FLASHPOINT here when I saw it was only going to be five issues... and then I saw the 15 or whatever titles created for it next month. Then I sighed. And then it got closer and closer to the release of this issue and my hope basically became me repeating to myself "Please don't be DC's HOUSE OF M, Please don't be DC's HOUSE OF M"... and then this issue really made me believe this is DC's HOUSE OF M. Again with the sighing. But, y'know what, it was okay for what it was - it had surprisingly good pacing considering how broad it is - and it was a solid "emotional roller coaster" for Barry who has been as wooden as you expect the character to be since his return, though Johns' writing has still been strong enough to make FLASH one of the best Big Two books the past year.
PROF CHALLENGER (PROF): I'm right on board with Douche with his love of alternate universe type stories. My only concern in concept with an "event" tied into one is that it does sort of require the reader to be rather well-versed already in the entire DC Universe to really appreciate and grasp what the changes are and why they are important or significant. For example, sure, we can glean from Barry's reaction that his mother is not supposed to be alive. However, the real impact of that revelation is only really effective if the reader has read (and remembers) FLASH: REBIRTH. Otherwise, even longtime DC readers who maybe avoided the newly cancelled Barry Allen focused FLASH series are going to be thinking "Huh? I never knew there was anything about Flash's parents." That's my big concern. This requires so much prior knowledge of both longtime and recent continuity, and specifically FLASH continuity, for it to matter to someone randomly giving it a tryout.KC: DC is like that across the board though. When ever someone new comes into my comic shop and starts reading they always, always have questions about DC but Marvel books not so much. Any...well almost every big DC stories requires some research for those who haven't been reading DC for awhile, not that it’s a bad thing but it could definitely turn some folks off.
JD: Agreed. I'm a pretty well-versed DC guy (of course I also think my penis is a good size, despite the laughter of girls who see it, so I may be wrong about both), and I didn't know anything about the Meta-Vest. But which of the big DC crossovers DIDN'T rely heavily on continuity-heavy stuff? Elseworld-esque titles are only effective if the reader knows something about the original characters, other-wise the differences presented wouldn't mean diddly-squish. I don't think this event is for bringing in new fans so much as maybe bringing back old ones, and giving current ones something to talk about. And any intelligent new reader worth his or her weight in panel gutters will either pick it up as they go along, or frigging ask someone. I love, love, love the idea of Zoom going back in time and messing with everything. Such a great and simple idea, the kind that Johns has based most of his career on. This alternate timeline, however, has yet to fully reel me in with the cast of characters, but I'm giving Johns the benefit of the doubt for now.
HUMPHREY: I'm down with the occasional alt-reality type story too, if you have a solid story to tell and a reason for telling it. And honestly, I do believe that FLASHPOINT has that; as I said earlier it's an emotional kick in the pants for a character that rarely shows any emotion. What I'm concerned about is the size of it, which seems to be kind of ridiculous given all the mini's and one-shots created for it, when this could have just been a maxi-sized Barry story to coincide with FLASH itself or whatever. Now I'm wondering how many of these books are pertinent or not to anything considering the broad strokes FLASHPOINT has going for it. I don't want to feel lost for not buying the Wonder Woman and Aquaman books or whatever, since their war looks to be a big plot point of this alt universe. Then comes the Catch 22 of if I can just read FLASHPOINT and more or less follow along, what's the point of so many expansive mini's other than to add depth to something that's going to take less than half a year to begin with?OD: There's no doubt this series is for the fans, but I'll contest that Johns as a creator is intended for the fanboys. I don't have a key that opens DC's box-o-demographics, but 15 years in marketing and PR tells me that strategically they were never aiming for Johns to bring in new fans. Now did GREEN LANTERN break this mold, probably a bit, but I doubt that even with its success the only reason Average Joe American knows a lick about GL is because of the movie promos.
PROF: All that being said, I am one of those who is a bit of a DC Zombie so even when I don't read specific titles I do generally keep track of the continuity. And for people like me, Geoff Johns usually hits a homerun with his first issues. He is exceptionally good at setting things up. The resolutions...not quite so exceptional. But usually, if I can get past his unsettling fixation on blood, decapitations, and other graphic maimings I enjoy the roller-coaster ride up to a point. , Geoff has me in the seat and intrigued. Obviously, in a follow-up to the very good REVERSE-FLASH: REBIRTH issue recently, Zoom has changed the past again and this time his efforts have resulted in a dramatically different present and a non-powered Barry Allen is the only one who knows the world has changed. It's a mystery and one that engages me.JD: Prof, you make Johns sound like Garth Ennis, and that surprises me. The only grisly thing I can think of was the one time Captain Cold froze a guys jaw and then punched it off. I don't really find his writing all that unsettling. I certainly wouldn't say that this crossover isn't kid friendly.
PROF: My response to this comment can be found by clicking the links in this very sentence… I could provide more, but I think the point is made.BUG: Point goes to Prof!
JD: Hahaha, ok, I guess he IS a little bloodthirsty..I can't say I've ever really noticed!
BUG: The mystery is good, but we know what happened if we’ve been following the FLASH series. It’s THE NAIL, which is about a nail that pops the tire of the Kent’s car, causing them not to find a baby Kal-El or A SOUND OF THUNDER where you go in the past, kill a roach, and all hell gets hand-basketed meets the SHOWCASE event from years back where we get alternate versions of characters we already know. Zoom fucked with things, so there’s really only way for Barry to fix it. Jump in the Delorean and help George McFly ask out Beverly from HOWARD THE DUCK.
OD: Hells yes, and allow me to be the first to spread the kimono in this crying game. Johns did a great balancing act of keeping the book half micro and half macro. And now I know why JD said in his sneak review last week that book slowed down around page 8. The time with the changes in Barry's life is fun, but when held up against the gargantuan changes of Aquaman drowning Europe and Wonder Woman's Roid Lezzies snatching up England, Barry's Mom being alive didn't stand a fucking chance.BUG: As much fun as I had seeing the private council gather on the roof to try to team up, I found that scene to be a bit monotonous. Too expository for me. It was cool seeing Element Woman and Shade the Changing Man (though I don’t really like this new incarnation of SHAZAM) them, but basically they stood on a roof and one by one introduced themselves in a clunky manner. I know space was an issue, but the scene didn’t really flow properly.
JD: Speaking of which, someone over at PopTards presented the view that now matter how the timeline has changed, the Aquaman and Wonder Woman thing is too out of character. Do you guys agree with this? Because I think it's COMPLETELY within their characterizations to do just such a thing, and they would barely need any nudging in that direction. Keep in mind this isn't dealing with the characters as they are after all this time existing side-by-side with heroes and growing as characters, but with how they were before encountering the human race. They both come from societies that HATE our surface/male-dominated world.KC: I'm not sure why anyone would say that it isn’t in character. Both of those characters have had story lines where their respective societies have tried to overthrow 'our' society (the terrible AMAZONS ATTACK comes to mind). It's totally feasible that within the DC Universe, something like this could happen maybe not in its current state but in a story like this...for sure.
HUMPHREY: I think as a central conceit for this universe, besides the familial stuff for Barry that's the real drive for it, an Aquaman vs. Wonder Woman conflict - especially in a world where there's no Superman - is an interesting driving plot. Again though (getting to that broken record point, I know) I'm not sure what it really means for anything if this is just a Barry story set in a different world. Other than to give all these mini's and one-shots created for FLASHPOINT something to work around, I'm not sure where this is going or why I should care.BUG: Part of the story that fascinates me the most are the not-so radical changes to Aquaman and Wonder Woman. Let’s face it, the characters need a shake-up. JMS’ reboot sucked. Aquaman desperately needs to do something different. Instead of changing their costume or replacing them for the gabillionth time, I like it that Johns has gone the Sub-Mariner route with Aquaman and giving his Atlanteans and Wonder Woman’s Amazons a little war to fight. My beef is that it didn’t happen in the realsy real DCU. But I’m thinking, if Johns wants to make this an event that matters, he’s not going to hit reset at the end of all of this and make some of the stuff that happens, outside of the Barry’s character arc development, matter when the dust settles.
KC: I also love the fact that Batman was the linchpin for the resistance and that nobody would fight back if he wasn't planning it.BUG: I guess Batman was ok in the issue, but Johns didn’t need to use him in all of the Green Lantern books to make them successful. Not sure why Johns is resorting to giving him such a big role here…especially since it’s not the Batman we know and not the one who has so many of the same qualities as Barry (i.e. the interest in sleuthing).
OD: Perhaps, like Father like son (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). Well aside from the fact that this Batman cuts the line after a dangling interrogation. But you know, it is a reverse world.
HUMPHREY: I'm not sure what the overall point of the Batman reveal was other than to add one last piece of "things are truly different here" as a cliffhanger point to grab readers for the next issue.
KC: As a side note I'm still not convinced it was necessary to bring back Barry Allen...BUG: That’s been my issue from the beginning, but I’m trying my best to move past it. Just as Kyle had become my favorite Green Lantern and I was disappointed seeing Hal back, it really hit me when Barry returned since, really, Wally was the only Flash I knew growing up.
JD: I'm with you on the Barry Allen thing, though at this point, it’s moot. I think taking away Wally's kids and continuing to move forward with him would have been a better move. I grew up with Wally, and Barry was always there casting a loving and respectable shadow anyway, and was more powerful as a dead character, I think. Barry just feels so dry to me on an emotional level. ALSO: whatever happened to BARRY'S KIDS? I'm not crazy, right? He had kids before he died and there hasn't been any mention of them as far as I know.
PROF: He apparently had kids in the 30th century with Iris because his grandkids are the Tornado Twins. DC doesn't seem to want to talk too much about that. They also don't talk too much about Iris being a time traveler from the 30th century or the fact that Barry had his face changed with plastic surgery and hair changed to close-cropped black hair.BUG: I think Johns has done a better job of characterizing Barry than Hal (since I still get bored with Hal from time to time). The anxiety about coming back and joining the rest of the Flashes and his family, the detective aspects, the genuine old schoolness of the character—Barry isn’t half bad. I still miss Wally though, who although is around still, hasn’t done squat since Barry has returned.
HUMPHREY: I think, if anything, these focal points of Johns of having Hal and Barry being essentially the centerpieces of his past couple events has shown that, honestly, those characters really are the most unexciting things about the events. I know he has a special affinity for the period they were created in and those characters, but out of the “Sinestro Corps War” and “Blackest Night” and now his latest FLASH volume and this first issue of FLASHPOINT, the guys I've gotten tired of the most have been the stars of the books. That does speak well for Johns' ability to create riveting circumstances around those parts of the DC Universe, but I also think that it speaks to the most exciting thing about Hal and Barry being stories about their powers and not really them.
PROF: Question: I see that over the course of the next few months, a full commitment to FLASHPOINT means 47 titles at $3.99 probably? That's basically a $200 investment by the reader. Is DC honestly planning to pump all this content out on to the stands while continuing to publish their regular line of books concurrently? You know how sometimes firefighters use fire to extinguish another fire. I am afraid that no matter how interesting the concept is or how much fun the other creators are having playing with it, I am afraid this monster glut of DC material is going to just extinguish the flame rather than feed the fire.BUG: That is a lot of samoleans. I’ll probably keep an eye on the creative teams and the characters and pick and choose. There’s no way I can get all of those.
OD: I thought the mantra was "Drawing the line at $2.99," with the exception of larger issues. So that lobs off about $60, but I do get your point. I'm hoping that like with all of the other cross-overs the past few years; you can absorb the story a la carte and not miss too many beats.
BUG: We can't leave without talking about Andy Kubert's art. I've always been a fan and here he continues to deliver solid work. No complaints on my end on the art side of things. There are flashy artists and expressive artists and surreal artists in comics. Kubert just tells straight up solid stories with his panels, pretty much all of the time.PROF: Agreed. Andy Kubert is always solid in his drawing and storytelling, from ADAM STRANGE to KA-ZAR to 1602 to BATMAN and now on FLASHPOINT. He benefits here with inks from a lady I consider the finest of the current crop of comic book inkers. I've raved about her before, but Sandra Hope makes everyone look great, like old vets such as Sinnot or Palmer used to. Pairing up Kubert and Hope ensures that FLASHPOINT is going to at least look great throughout.
BUG: As long as they stick with these artists until the end of FLASHPOINT. DC has been notorious of late of not being able to have consistent artists all the way through which is a huge problem consistency wise in my book. Take a look at the last issue of BRIGHTEST DAY for a shining example.HUMPHREY: I doubt there'll be any art inconsistencies on this one, Andy may not have the "old school" ability of his father to crank out dozens of pages in a month, but he's pretty prompt for someone of his name caliber. Plus, I can't remember the last time I've seen him pencil anything so I assume that means a good bit of lead-in time is in play here. But his art chores fit very well, especially since his style has always been more suited to the capes and tights stuff and it's plentiful here. Everything is very streamlined and the characters always feel very "broad" in that aspect of the weight and power they carry. I can see very little wrong in going with an artist like him if you're going to have an event book such as this.
KLETUS: The art is definitely good. Andy Kubert's art always looks clean, never seems cluttered (even in the smaller panels) and his facial expressions are great. I agree about Sandra Hope, her contribution should be praised as well.OD: I'm really not much of an art snob and the Kubert name is well known for a reason. Plus, DC rarely puts their eggs in the second-string basket for such events. Pacing is important for these books, and Kubert deftly manages the grand-sweeping story panels with the quieter moments of Barry losing his shot in this new reality.
BUG: OK, guys let’s put this rhino in the bucket and call it quits for this roundtable. Any final nuggets of wisdom you want to leave the readers with on FLASHPOINT?
PROF: It was good. I am intrigued. If this were a 5-issue mini on its own, I might give it a commitment. I committed to the BLACKEST NIGHT mini by itself (and wound up picking up a scattershot 3 or 4 of the tie-ins). And the truth is, it lost steam halfway through for me and wound up sticking with it mainly just because I had mentally committed to it and the art was so good. Did I like this one enough to want to pick up #2? Yes. However, I think I am just going to have to take it issue by issue rather than jump in to it. I have no doubt I will try one or two of the tie-ins at some point mainly because of the creative types working on it.OD: I'm psyched! The question of whether I will buy every title can only be told with time. I'm certainly willing to shell out the duckets if each side story is well-crafted and lends an importance to understanding the whole event. History has proven though, that most books can be glossed over from a completest point of view and serve mainly as vehicles for specific fans of those characters. One issue in, I'm hooked.
PROF: I am in serious "Event" malaise. I was there when the original CRISIS "event" hit and even though in retrospect I think the changes wrought were wrong-headed, I was not disappointed by CRISIS itself and it was exciting to be there on the ground floor of a truly new status quo. The seemingly endless series of DC "Events" leading into "event" leading into "event" over the last 6 or 7 years has drained my enthusiasm. The best I can muster is interest tinged with optimism. The last time an "Event" generated enthusiasm in me was "The Sinestro War" and that was because it was limited to the GL title and one big, honkin' special.BUG: I hear ya, Prof. I’m a bit burned out myself and this even seems to be bigger than most with 15 miniseries churning out of the FLASHPOINT book with the rest of the DC books still chugging along. I wish they would have had the balls to pause the rest of the DCU and just do FLASHPOINT for two months.
PROF: It would be nice to get back to a focus on the characters and the line and build up fondness and involvement in the characters that make up this universe for awhile. As it is now, the characters and their lives have been lost in the crowded forest of line-wide "events" or year-long "events" within their own titles. I'm just tired of it.BUG: Preach on, Brother Prof. A few months of something not resembling a crossover would do DC good.
KLETUS: I thought I read somewhere that DC was stopping certain titles to give way to the FLASHPOINT tie-ins. That is really expensive to follow, and I think that has something to do with people being bummed out on event after event. Think of all the FINAL CRISIS tie-ins...do any of those even matter anymore? INK?...REVELATIONS?...or RESIST / SUBMIT...DANCE?...anyone remember the significance of those? Shelling out 200 + dollars for some shit that won't even mater in 3 weeks definitely helps extinguish people's excitement for events like this. Most people, like myself, won't be able to afford everything. Good thing I work a comic shop...
OD: With “War of the Green Lanterns”, even though the word "event" was used in all of the marketing hype, it really is just a story. In my douchey opinion an event needs to have an everlasting affect on the entire DC Universe. With FLASHPOINT #1, I'm just not there. I don't see the entire DC Universe shifting gears when all is said and done because there is simply no way the cataclysms established by Johns and crew can sustain beyond the story's completion.BUG: The GREEN LANTERN events worked because they were a slow build and relatively self contained. Had SINESTRO CORPS WAR started out with an event of this scope, with a 5 issue mini plus 15 miniseries tie ins with everyone either getting a yellow ring or fighting someone who has one, it wouldn’t have worked either. I think despite the strength of FLASHPOINT, which was a really fun issue with a lot of potential, this event may collapse under its own weight.
KLETUS: I liked this issue but knowing the trend of how most "events" go, we know there's going to be another one next summer that will be the next big thing and I can't help but think this big thing will be close to forgotten by that time. I'm not completely bitter about events yet but I am starting to see a lot of reoccurring trends. I'm always optimistic that I'll have a 'holy shot' moment with one of the 'event' issues and this series has good potential for a few of those...PROF: FLASHPOINT is solid. The set-up is intriguing. Barry is still boring. Would've preferred to see it start with Barry going to sleep and Wally being the one who woke up and had to unravel this. The "shocker" ending of Thomas Wayne as Batman, rather than surprise me just kind made me go "okay." I would say that if someone is a DC fan, then they should at least give this issue a try. However, it's also a $3.99 cover, so they're dropping $4 just to try it. So...I might be more inclined to say wait a bit and see how the summer progresses and if what you hear intrigues you, then pick up the trade collection when it comes out. More for your money and you don't have to wait to see what happens.
BUG: Yeah, I wish we’d get more Wally. I remember when Flash would take care of half of Central City and Jay Garrick would take care of the other half. Kind of wish they’d do the same with Wally and Barry. It seems to work for Bruce and Dick. It’s like no one wants to write a story about a married guy in comics these days… That said, FLASHPOINT is a nice start and has enough elements to interest even this reader who has grown leery of alternative realities and events. I can’t guarantee I’ll follow all of the miniseries, but I’ll be picking up the series proper.HUMPHREY: Final thoughts? Just more of my "cautious optimism" on this. Hopefully Johns has a plan that plays itself out in four more issues well enough that all the side stuff stays just that; side stuff that you can purchase at your leisure. It's a good first issue, I like the "Elseworlds" he created around Barry and Zoom's actions, the art is very nice, and the tertiary stuff going on is pretty interesting, but definitely teetering on the brink of becoming way overblown if not handled right. Overall though, I'm still game on the main book, for now.
BUG: And there you have it; an incredibly wordy and detailed examination of the first issue of DC’s big FLASHPOINT event. Be sure to pick up your own copy of the book on sale now! If you made it to the end of this column, you deserve a big ol’ pat on the back. Now it’s time to continue the conversation in the Talkbacks.
Thanks for reading…
Proofs, co-edits & common sense provided by Sleazy G
