Hey folks, here's the followup interview by Smashingworth, this time interviewing two of the subjects of the documentary AMERICAN MOVIE, and filmmakers of COVEN and the upcoming NORTHWESTERN. Enjoy... I know I did...
Dear Harry,
Hey, here is the interview with Mark Borchardt and Mike Schank. Personally I really liked this one because Mark's intensity and passion are always present. It makes for an intimidating interview, but one hell of a read. One thing I need to note for the AICN readers: I did this interview for the University of Saint Thomas in Houston, TX, and we will publish excerpts of this interview in our school paper, the Cauldron, later this week. AICN is getting the first-look at the complete interview.
Also, both interviews took place on Tuesday the 9th (not the 10th like I mistakenly wrote last time). Hopefully, there aren't anymore typos like the "Christ" one . . .
Complete Interview with Mark Borchardt and Mike Schank on 9 November.
SMASHINGWORTH: I've got some questions here, some of them are about AMERICAN MOVIE, some of them are about NORTHWESTERN, COVEN . . . I watched COVEN last night--
MARK BORCHARDT: Oh, cool, cool. Thanks for doing that, man.
SMASH: It was interesting to see. I kinda had to watch it after seeing the movie about it.
MB: Well, it was a film made with . . . basically getting in the filmmaking ring in that sense for the first time, so . . . that's what you saw.
SMASH: Are you using it as a calling card at all for other projects?
MB: Well, I suppose now, man. I made it, it took 3 years to make, it took a little longer than I thought it was going to take to make. I just wanted to raise some money for NORTHWESTERN, man. Everything in the end is working out the way I had planned anyway, y'know. So, just a little different route here with AMERICAN MOVIE and that, y'know.
SMASH: In AMERICAN MOVIE, you say that you need to sell 3000 copies of COVEN? Have you sold that many yet?
MB: No, no. I'm selling 3000, but I've sold about 400 so far, but remember, the film really didn't even come out yet, except for New York and that, so . . That ain't bad, y'know, going from screening to screening and just hustling and selling them.
SMASH: Did you have a plan for selling them before that? Were just going to go to festivals?
MB: The ironic part of it is . . . Well, first of all, it's a dark, somber stretch of a film with all these wild technical vagrancies all across the board. From lighting, dark lighting, to too much head room, I'm sitting there arguing with everybody whose picked up the camera for me, and all of this wild stuff. I got denied every festival I entered it into, but I'm never bitter 'cause I understood it. I would deny it too, man. But then when AMERICAN MOVIE come out, it gets into the Toronto International Film Festival, the Chicago, Boston, Denver, New Orleans . . . it plays at Sundance, at the Egyptian and all of this stuff, where the Blair Witch played like at the same time and all of that crap. So, film and life work in mysterious ways sometimes, man.
SMASH: Yeah, well, it's cool to see it after seeing AMERICAN MOVIE. I mean, you get to know both of you so well through the movie, I suppose.
MB: Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, Mike, you're pretty well the same, right?
MIKE SCHANK: What?
MB: That's what I mean. Hell, yeah.
SMASH: It's kind of like watching some movie that your friends made. It's kind of interesting to see, you just want to see how it turned out. Let's see what kind of questions I wrote down here . . . What was it like being filmed all the time for both of you?
MS: It didn't make any difference to me. It's just a matter of Mark and I making COVEN, and everybody else was in COVEN making COVEN, and, uh, y'know having some cameras on us, y'know. It wasn't really no big deal.
SMASH: Was it kind of weird though when you go over to watch the Superbowl and they're there?
MB: Oh, no no no no. 'Cuz it was just Chris and Sarah filming, and they were more in a sense like friends. It wasn't this foreign alien entity coming in and being very plastic and detached from it. They were on the periphery, but it was a warm kind of feeling, and not like this cold-hearted camera crew doing this and that, man. So it worked well.
MS: One thing that was kinda weird is they kept asking all the time if they could come over and film me or record me playing the guitar, y'know. And all of a sudden, I didn't know at that point that I was going to be the soundtrack for the movie, and all of a sudden Sarah calls me and she's like, "Yeah, well you're the soundtrack for the whole movie." And I'm like oh cool, y'know.
SMASH: Was it fun with them filming you?
MB: Yeah, it was. It provided a comfort zone because, when making a film, man, there's loneliness, there's frustration, there's all of that stuff. So here, off to the side, were these two other people going through loneliness, frustration, the same thing we were. So there's like this stunning parallelity going on for those 3 or 4 years, man. So they were to me like a comfort zone, man, because whatever despair I went through I know that those guys were going through the same thing. So it worked well that way psychologically.
SMASH: I know you answered this last night at the Q&A, but I just want to get this down . . . How much control did you have over the way you were portrayed in AMERICAN MOVIE?
MB: I let them have free reign. In filming it and editing it, I never interfered. If something good was going to come out of this, it was going to be via Chris and Sarah's intuition, and I was not going to interfere with that whatsoever. When they had finally cut it they showed it to me, asked if anything was offensive, and I said, "Nope." And that was that. That was it, man.
SMASH: How has AMERICAN MOVIE changed things? The filming of it as well . . How did it affect the way you guys went about making COVEN? And how has the release changed things for you?
MB: No, it has nothing to do with it. AMERICAN MOVIE has absolutely nothing to do with COVEN. We never crossed lines, or nobody helped each other or nothing like that. But as in getting exposure for COVEN, now AMERICAN MOVIE . . Hey, man, check this out. Me and Mike are here because they filmed AMERICAN MOVIE, but without me and Mike there wouldn't be no AMERICAN MOVIE. So, all we got to say, it's opportune meeting of the waters. You can minus Chris and Sarah and AMERICAN MOVIE out of the picture, I'm still gonna be making my stuff regardless. It'll take a few more years to get noticed and a lot more life resolutions, like stopping drinking and, y'know, wild journey like that, but this has just kind of accelerated the process right now--it's a blessing. But remember, man, it's an opportune meeting of the waters for them to meet us too and all of that stuff. There was no AMERICAN MOVIE without the other two. Um, with NORTHWESTERN and all that I'm getting my own money, I'm doing my own vision. The only thing that could ever possibly benefit from all this stuff, basically, is women and to get money, like, to pay the bills, man. That's the only two things any of this could ever amount to in a sense, and of course, publicity for the next film. A lot of people have contacted me and given me their cards and all of this crap, but, y'know, I'm not into that. I'm 33, man, and I've gotta make my own films and that and not call people on the phone and "Yeah, we'll have a meeting or we'll have a lunch" and all of this crap. But, yeah man, if I was your age, man, I could do . . . Wait, you're in your twenties, right?
SMASH: I'm 20 actually.
MB: Wow! Yeah, man, if I was your age I'd be calling all of those cards, man. I'm 33, I gotta make my own thing, man.
SMASH: So you're not going to be getting an agent any time soon?
MB: Hey, man, if it's get you women and it gets you money to pay the bills, that's fine. Don't call me a sell-out. I wouldn't waste an inordinate amount of time on it, but if there's some benefit to it, yeah. But I gotta make my own movies, dude. I don't care about no damn car chases, or cars going through bank windows and crap like that. That's somebody else to do, not me, man.
SMASH: Okay. So you don't have a plan to go see if you can direct a big blockbuster?
MB: Screw that, dude. On Monday, man . . . today is what? Today is Tuesday. On Monday, man, we'll be done with this. I'll be back in Milwaukee, man. And hopefully I'll be working to have my dreams come true by making my film in Wisconsin, I mean, I will . . . No, dude, I just been to LA and New York for the first time a couple of weeks ago. So what? They're goddamn cities with the same damn people. I wanna get back to Milwaukee and make my film, man. So that's it.
SMASH: Well, I just mean, after you . . .
MB: No, but I'm trying to answer you truthfully. That's what I mean.
SMASH: I know.
MB: Yeah.
SMASH: I'm just saying, after NORTHWESTERN, do you have any other goals that you want to do?
MB: Yeah! Yeah, yeah. Obviously, because look, that'll be a couple of years from now and who knows what I'll experience in life or who I'll meet, and I'll incorporate that into the next film. It's not for me to say. I gotta concentrate on the dream film of my life, NORTHWESTERN, and that's it.
SMASH: Cool. Have you finished the script completely?
MB: I'm in the middle of the fifth draft, and I started that back in '84. I have lost so . . . Damn, man, I should have took photos and . . . 15 years of research I could have done partying with these people, listening to what the women said, all of that. I've taken hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of notes, but that still ain't enough. I should have had 15, 20, 25 drafts of that damn script by now. So, man, maybe I learned my lesson out of that. Time is valuable, not to waste time or anything like that. I'm 33, man, it'll take about two years to do NORTHWESTERN. Talking with you guys, man, I start to realize, man, all of the years wasted, man. I should have just took more notes, more drafts of the script, still photos of the shots that I wanted and all of that stuff. But it's not too late, man. I have done a lot of research and that.
SMASH: Is NORTHWESTERN shaping up differently than you originally imagined it?
MB: Absolutely. The atmosphere is exactly the same, but the content is different because not only does the geography change in 13-14 years, but also when you go from your twenties to your thirties there's different values in life and that stuff, y'know what I mean. Also, when you're 33 you realize you ain't gonna live forever, but when your twenty, man, you're still living forever, man. So, all of those values come into it (laughs).
SMASH: When did you guys finish filming AMERICAN MOVIE? Was that right around the premier of COVEN, in '97 was it?
MB: Yep. You got it. That's when they actually stopped filming it basically.
SMASH: And they've just started releasing it, so what been going on in y'alls lives in between the making of AMERICAN MOVIE and the release now with the tour? That's about two years there, right?
MB: Yep.
SMASH: Well, what's been happening?
MS: Well, it's the tour, y'know . . .
MB: No, but after AMERICAN MOVIE and before the tour.
MS: Well, we won the Grand Jury's award at Sundance Film Festival, and then the tour, y'know. A lot of people are getting to hear my music. A lot of people are seeing AMERICAN MOVIE and we're getting good ratings. We sell out almost everywhere we go, and all the responses are basically all good, y'know. Does that answer your question?
SMASH: um . . .
MS: I'm really tired right now. (Mark and Mike laugh)
SMASH: What I mean is, before y'all even went to Sundance, and Chris and Sarah are still getting the film developed, were you still working at the cemetery at the time?
MB: No, no. OK. I'll give you the straight facts. Okay, Uncle Bill died and he left me about 50 to 60 grand, when that happened I quit the cemetery job, started using all of that money to pay child support and dumping it into stuff to market COVEN, and continuing to write NORTHWESTERN. By the time we got done with Sundance that money ran out. I went back to Milwaukee, was sitting in my folks' basement actually, and realized, "Man, I gotta get a job. I'm out of money." So I started working ten hours a day stapling shutters at a factory, then just about a month and a half ago I quit that, been making money off of COVEN and all kinds of stuff. I've been set ever since, man. Now I gotta get more of a business mentality. Child support is a bitch, taxes are a bitch, all my bills are a bitch, but I'll get it all figured out. So I really wasted, after COVEN came out, man, I wasted about a year and a half of my life, man. I mean, I was working on all the movie stuff, but I could have started NORTHWESTERN and all of that. Man! Dude, if you let a day go by it turns into a week and a month and that month has turned into a year, so . . .
SMASH: Do you find yourself getting more disciplined as a filmmaker, in getting it done the way you want to do it?
MB: Yeah, but, I mean, it's a really intricate pattern because bills are distracting, yelling at the mother of your kids becomes emotionally distracting, having to help your parents out every other day, or your brother, or this or that. I mean, all of this stuff becomes so psychologically distracting it's hard to concentrate on the script. But no, dude, yeah, I'm getting more disciplined. I just can't wait, man, to be happy, to live my dream life. Y'know, and I really wanna work toward that. Y'know, making my film, so . . .
SMASH: Are things picking up with the tour? Are you enjoying it?
MB: Yeah, yeah.
SMASH: Is this the kind of thing that you wanted to do? To get out there and promote the movie?
MB: Yeah, that's great because if the movie is successful then that would be great. Because then people look at you as a success, regardless of whether or not the film is good or not. When it becomes successful it doesn't matter. They look at you as whether you're successful or not, and that could only serve to . . . that would then be a positive thing. So, hopefully it will be successful.
SMASH: It looks like y'all are getting good word of mouth and all. I've seen some reviews and they have all been good. So let me see if there are some questions that I forgot to ask and see if we can wrap this up . . . Oh, I just wanted to ask you since you’re a big horror fan, since a lot of . . . you are a big horror fan, right?
MB: 5 percent. 4 to 5 percent (laughs). Sorry! No, 95 percent of what I watch has absolutely nothing to do with horror at all.
SMASH: Really?
MB: Look, man, I just grew up in the late 70s, and I had checked out DAWN OF THE DEAD, NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD, TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, THE HILLS HAVE EYES, VIDEODROME, SCANNERS, stuff like that, but then I cut it off. I've never seen SCREAM or I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SUMMER or anything like that. I wouldn't know anything about that (laughs). Y'know? I check out Fellini, Bergman, Kubrick, Scorcese, Polanski, all of that stuff. Woody Allen, man. That's basically what I'm into.
SMASH: Do you have a favorite?
MB: Well, noooo . . . No, no. But, favorite film? Yeah, DAWN OF THE DEAD and TAXI DRIVER. I mean, TAXI DRIVER is pure cinema. Woah, in my book you can't top that.
SMASH: I was just wondering if you've seen any movies lately that excited you?
MB: Yeah, SLAM from '97 and Kubrick's EYES WIDE SHUT--even though it's got some of the worst, corniest dialogue and it's all over the board. It's really beautiful to look at and freak out on. You see, when I go watch movies sometimes I just drift away from the movie itself and just listen to the music and envision my own shots. Like Cronenberg's eXistenZ, I went back just to trip out on the music and think about my own thing. Yeah, and half the time when I'm watching films I just think about other things, man. Screw the movie, man. But I get into the atmosphere of my life while I'm watching it.
SMASH: Do you all have a lot of input into the AMERICAN MOVIE website?
MB: Yeah, I do like my daily journal in that, but that' s Chris and Sarah's deal. We got nothing to do with that.
