Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
Without completely realizing it, director Roger Donaldson has been one of my absolute favorite filmmakers over the years. I say I didn't realize it because, even before I paid that much attention to directors' names, I was groovin' on Donaldson's works.
I have an unhealthy obsession with NO WAY OUT. It's always been one of my go-to films when I want to show people a really clever work that they probably haven't seen. It also has one of the greatest twist ending ever, and features Sean Young at her absolute most brazen and sexy.
Many of you probably know Donaldson best from SPECIES, which featured an unusually killer cast for its glorified B-movie sci-fi plot. It also features Natasha Henstridge starkers. Meow! I don't think I've ever wanted to die having sex more than I did after seeing that movie.
Among Donaldson's other works are the Mel Gibson/Anthony Hopkins version of THE BOUNTY; SMASH PALACE; COCKTAIL (I didn't say all of his works were good); CADILLAC MAN; WHITE SANDS; THE GETAWAY remake; DANTE'S PEAK; THIRTEEN DAYS; THE RECRUIT; and the exceptional WORLD'S FASTEST INDIAN. When I look at his recent films (post DANTE'S PEAK), it's clear that Donaldson is working at the top of his game, and his latest offering, THE BANK JOB, is proof of his keen ability to take fairly complicated and multi-layers stories with dozens of characters, and somehow have it all make sense.
He also managed to put Jason Statham back on the map as something more than just an action star (not that there's anything wrong with that), and the resulting film is as much fun as anything I've seen this year. I spoke to Donaldson just a couple of days ago, and we covered much of his career and what it takes make the complicated understandable.
Enjoy…
Capone:: Good morning, Roger. How are you?
Roger Donaldson: Good, good.
Capone: So where are you calling from today?
RD: I'm in Santa Monica.
Capone: I have to admit that one of the big reasons I wanted to talk to you is that there are very few of your films that I've seen only once, and NO WAY OUT is one of my all-time favorite films period.
RD: Well thank you. I happened to catch it myself the other day, and I sort of thought, "Yeah, I can kind of see what it was so popular."
Capone: I think I was in college when it came out. I wasn't really paying attention to box office back then, but I can promise you it was popular in my VCR for many years.
RD: It had a similar sort of track to THE BANK JOB: it started off well received and just kept going.
Capone: It has such a terrific Hitchcock-ian, the-wrong-man-accused vibes and wraps up with one of the greatest endings I'd ever seen. You could built a film class around the way NO WAY OUT is structured. And maybe later on, if I'm feeling bold, I'll ask you for some good Sean Young stories.
RD: [laughs]
Capone: Speaking to the complexity of that film's story, you've never shied away from tackling complex and potentially complicated plots. What's the key to structuring a film like THE BANK JOB or NO WAY OUT or THIRTEEN DAYS or even THE RECUIT, something that has so many layers that would be very easy to get lost in the wrong director's hands?
RD: I think one of the biggest things in not getting lost is to cast people who are all very different, so that you have really strong characters playing each plot line and you don't get confused about which plot line you're following. I put a lot of effort getting great casts for all of my movies with that in mind. I personally can easily get confused in a movie when I think two people are similar, and I'm not quite sure for a moment, and I'm thinking, "Wait, who are you?" And if you find yourself doing that, you really are in trouble with the story because you're pulled out of the movie intellectually and emotionally. Suddenly you're thinking about all the wrong things.
Capone: In the case of THE BANK JOB, was this a story you were even that aware of before you got involved in making a movie about these true events?
RD: I'd never even heard of it until the script came along. [laughs]
Capone: I hadn't either. So was it complicated to you as you began to go through it and began to realize how many layers of people and society this story involved?
RD: Yeah, and that's one of the things that attracted me to it, these multi-layered, different-faceted storyline. I thought, "Hmm, there's lots to get in here." And if you can pull it all together, it's both a heist movie and a political thriller.
Capone: Do you rely more heavily on test screenings to let you know whether the film is making sense?
RD: Those test screenings are the most…you learn so much about your movie because it doesn't matter how much you like it or how much you can follow it. If you put it in front of an audience and they don't give it high marks, then you're in trouble; and if they do give it high marks, then you've got something to run with and you try to tweak it and make it even better.
I always keep the preview results just to try and get a historical perspective on what's happening with my films, so you can compare how movies previewed versus how they performed and what people liked and what the critics said. THE BANK JOB actually previewed slightly higher than NO WAY OUT did. So I was obviously heartened when that happened; I thought, this has got some potential.
Capone: You mentioned the more political side of THE BANK JOB, I think that's the aspect of the film that is surprising a lot of people going into it thinking it's only a heist movie.
RD: Well, I think the title is both good and bad. The title doesn't mislead you about what it is, but it does mislead you a little bit because it isn't just about a bank. Look, I hated the title of NO WAY OUT when it came along. It was originally titled FINISHED WITH ENGINES, it's a naval time for parking your boat. And THE BANK JOB was originally called BAKER STREET.
Capone: I love the idea that these working class criminals are sending the upper echelons of British government, royalty, the intelligence community into a frenzy. It certainly makes the criminals easier to root for because who doesn't like seeing the rich and powerful get there's?
RD: Well, yeah. I also thought that in this day and age when there are people struggling financially, as we've seen even in the last few weeks, things are getting more dire. And you realize the number of people who manage to skim millions and millions off the top and are in great shape themselves.
I think the working class into the middle class are rooting for the underdog. I think the movie also works on an economic levels for today's point and time that makes you sympathetic to the storyline the way it is presented. And I think people just root for the underdog anyway, just naturally. That's common human nature. I know if I'm watching a football game, I'm always rooting for the team that's down even if I don't know who they are. I always side with the team that's losing hoping that they come back strong [laughs].
Capone: This is hardly an original thought, but it's really nice to see Jason Statham doing some of his best work in THE BANK JOB. He's done so many action films on top of each other that I think people have forgotten what a terrific actor he can be. Tell me about your history with him. When did you first see him, and when did he get involved with the film?
RD: When I was given the script, it was suggested that Jason was also interested in it and he would be perfect to play the East End bank robber. And I met with him, and there was just a gut feeling that this guy was the real deal, that he was really interested in his acting as well as trying to be successful, that he was perfect for this role.
I looked at his movie and realized he definitely had a sort of charisma about him, and after working with him, I would put him in that Steve McQueen mold of somebody who says a hell of a lot when they're saying very little. And women love him, and men love him too. He really does cross over in all sorts of areas. I think that's why movies like the TRANSPORTER movies have worked, and why he's so appropriate to this film.
Capone: Was TRANSPORTER the first time you saw him in a film?
RD: It was. Oh no, it wasn't. It was LOCK, STOCK [AND TWO SMOKING BARRELS].
Capone: I would have guessed that. And one of the other really strong performances of his I've seen recently was in Guy Ritchie's film REVOLVER. I had problems with the movie, but his performance reveals something about his acting talents that I hadn't seen before.
RD: You know, I haven't seen that one. He's definitely a star, a talented star.
Capone: In terms of the pure heist aspect of the film, what the joy for you in doing that kind of story?
RD: I do enjoy movies that have tension in them, and I try to put a sort of tension I ever have made because if you can keep the audience guessing and feeling like "I'm not quite sure how this whole thing is going to turn out," that propels the audience to keep involved and committed to the film and not get bored with it.
Capone: I noticed that you not only made an effort to capture the period through the wardrobe, cars…
RD: I love doing all that. I think one of the pleasures is researching. Whatever you're making into a film, half the pleasure is the research trying to get it right and getting to learn more about the subject. I remember I went to England in the late '60s, the first time I went there [Donaldson is Australian]. I had my own impression of England. I remember vividly being taken by a…I don't even remember who it was, somebody in a business suit…and we went to this place and there are all these naked ladies standing around handing out drinks to all of these businessmen in suit and ties, and I was like, "Oh my God, I've never seen anything like this before." [laughs]
Capone: Okay, I have to ask: what was the occasion that you would have been in a place with naked ladies serving drinks?
RD: I have no idea what it was! I just remember vividly, being a rather naive young chap at the time, that it was a rather extraordinary scene. Nobody was touching; there was no sort of entertainment there. There was just naked girls handing out drinks.
Capone: I'd remember that vividly too, I think.
RD: Yeah.
Capone: What I was going to say about the visuals was that you use them to capture the period as well, almost as if you wanted THE BANK JOB to look like it was made in the late 1960s, early 1970s.
RD: I was out to do two things. I was out to capture the style of that period, but I was also out to make a movie that is…if you were to see a movie made in 1971 and stack it against this, I'd think you'd see a very dramatic difference in the speed of how it's cut and the way the music works in the film. Lots of things that make an audience think that they're in the present rather than the past, filmmaking wise. But color wise and set wise and the cars, I was very cognizant of all of those things that were going to give it a period look.
Capone: The color was something that stood out to me. It wasn't archival in look, but it did look deliberately dated.
RD: I know what you mean.
Capone: I said that NO WAY OUT was the film of yours that I'd seen the most, but I'd say coming in a close tie for second would be SPECIES and THIRTEEN DAYS, two films that truly show the range of what you are capable of.
RD: Those are the two extremes of what I have done in my filmmaking career.
Capone: Do you make an effort not to repeat yourself?
RD: I do. One of things that I love to do is do something different each time. And usually that's motivated in finding something that interests me. And probably the one things that got me interested in doing SPECIES, it was a number of things. First, my ex-agent was running MGM, and we had a great relationship--Mike Marcus. So when he came to me and say, "I'd like you to do this film," my first reaction was that it's not exactly what my expertise of interest is. But there are a few things about it that I realized I was interested in. The first was the whole Carl Sagan SETI Project, which is this ongoing search for extraterrestrial intelligence down in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, they have this device scanning the heavens for any signs of alien civilization.
That in itself made think, "God that's amazing. I've got to learn more about that and meet the people." In fact, I shot at Arecibo for the film. And then the other one was SPECIES was at the very beginning of motion capture and digital filmmaking, and I was very keen to get involved in that. And I managed to attract a real A-grade cast to what was not exactly what one would think of as an A movie; it was in the horror genre. And the script had a tongue-in-cheek quality to it. And people like Alfred Molina and Mike Madsen managed to sort of ring every ounce of energy out of the piece and make it a unique movie. And of course finding Natasha Henstridge didn't hurt either. [laughs]
Capone: Does it sadden you to see what's become of that franchise, a complete T&A joke now?
RD: Well, it does. I have to say, I have never seen any of the other films because I was so disappointed in the way they took it and ran with it. But I think that movie, I got a really great cast of people like Marg Helgenberger and Ben Kingsley and Forest Whitaker, who managed to lift the whole piece.
Capone: You said you don't like to repeat yourself, but you have worked with a few of the same actors more than once in your career, like Anthony Hopkins and Kevin Costner. Is Jason Statham someone you could see yourself working with again?
RD: Actually, I would love to work with Jason again. He's a delight to work with, talented, enthusiastic, you couldn't ask for more in a working relationship.
Capone: What is the key to finding someone you feel that way about?
RD: Part of it is making a film that you feel has worked and that everybody is committed to and you didn't lose faith in the people as you made the film. Probably the most unusual person I did work with again was Tony Hopkins. Tony and I, when we did THE BOUNTY, was a movie that…I loved the movie and I'm very proud of it, but my relationship with Tony was abysmal; we were ready to kill each other. [laughs] And the idea that we would ever work together again, if you'd asked either of us, we would have said, "You've got to be joking. I can't stand that prick!" From both sides.
So the fact I went and made another movie with him [THE WORLD'S FASTEST INDIAN], and it went from that experience to a sort of love fest, where we're now really good friends, it's hard to believe. You realize how much effort it takes from everybody to make a good movie, and I think once you put the personal hardship behind you and look at the work you did, you realize that it was some of your best work and you realize where that's come from, and the other person makes a similar decision. You realize just how important that relationship was to making the film.
Capone: THE WORLD'S FASTEST INDIAN is a film that you actually returned to writing for the first time since SMASH PALACE, and it's a true story like THE BANK JOB. Is that a coincidence?
RD: I think it is a coincidence. True stories obviously, I've done a few of them, so maybe I tend to gravitate to them. I'm not consciously looked for true stories to make films about, but there are historical events that stick out that would make great movies. I would love to do something based upon the Louis and Clark/Sacagawea story.
Getting to the truth of that would be completely impossible, but to tackle that period of time and the interaction between the whites and the Indians would be an amazing experience to explore that piece of history. But I'm not always looking for true stuff either; I'm looking for good, meaty materials that feels original and doesn't feel too generic or too much a copy of what somebody else has done.
Capone: Do you know what you're doing next?
RD: I do. I'm negotiating over a couple of things, but that doesn't mean they'll become movies either. Nothing that I start shooting next week, but I think I'm getting fussier too.
Capone: Alright, I'm feeling bold. Give me your best Sean Young story.
RD: My best Sean Young story… I can't do that. [laughs] You know what I can say about Sean thought. She is a very unique person, and I remember vividly the first time when she came to screen test for me. I knew she's been in BLADE RUNNER, and I knew this beautiful woman was going to turn up. I didn't know much more about her. So she came into the room, and she said, "I haven't learned any of the script." And I was like, "What the hell are you doing here if you haven't learned any of the script?
How are you going to read for me." And she said, "What I am going to do is read from my diary." And I realized at that point that she was in character; she wasn't herself. And she has written as this character from the film, and she read a page from the diary about what she'd been getting up to with the Secretary of Defense. And she had me hooked. I was thinking, "Okay, you made it past stage one, now please go away and come back so we can read some lines as well."
I must say, I feel about her that she never really got her shot to show just how talented she is. I don't know if she still is, but at the time she was a great singer, she could dance, she was an excellent actress, she had a kind of wild child quality about her that meant she would give anything a go.
And I applauded her for all of those things. It was kind of sad to see what happened to her at the DGA Awards, where she was making a bit of a fool of herself. But that's her too, and you can only love her for her boldness in a way. A lot of people have had trouble coping with that sort of direct quality about her; she doesn't care what anybody thinks, and I personally like people like that.
Capone: It sounds like your experience with her was a positive one.
RD: It was. She was a big factor in that picture working, I really believe it. She was a big help toward making the sexual quality of it work. And I only really saw it when I watched the film the other day, just how good she is in the film, how unique she is.
She reminds you of Marilyn Monroe at her best, you know? And I don't think anybody ever gave her a role after that where they could get the best out of her. Although she was really good in that remake of COUSIN COUSINE, that French movie.
Capone: Sure. I think it was just called COUSINS.
RD: You're right, it was. She was really good in that.
Capone: Roger, those are all the questions I had. I'm glad to hear THE BANK JOB continues to do well for you.
RD: Thanks a lot. And it's always nice to hear that people appreciate your body of work, so thanks for saying what you did about NO WAY OUT.
Capone: If we were doing this interview in person, I'd break my policy on not asking for autographs and get you to sign my DVD of NO WAY OUT. Thanks again.
RD: [laughs] Bye bye.
Capone
